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Re: [vox] [fwd] Re: [K12OSN] M$ Cost Comparisons]
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Re: [vox] [fwd] Re: [K12OSN] M$ Cost Comparisons]

I think some of the MS numbers I have seen in this thread are confusing.
I've been negotiating MS Select Contracts for about ten years now and 
the pricing structure varies from year to year and is anything but simple.

For example, the page that Chris was kind enough to point us to seems
to apply only to schools covered by the Monterey County contract with
MS and adminstered by EdResources.com as their preferred distributorl

If you go directly to the EdResources.com site you find an off contract
price for MS Office Standard K-12 version listed at $148.95.

Whatever the price I think the cost benefit questions include these:

Cost Questions:

1) Since MS and other commercial software has a per seat cost, then
whenever we want to build on the success of a computer program we have
to fund increased software costs. If we have software that is not priced
on a per seat basis, then once we fund the initial purchase/install we
grow the program without addition acquisition costs. So the cost
advantages accumulate and grow as the adoption of the software increases.

2) Thin client computing solutions like LSTP have the same cost benefit
issue as in #1 above, but even more so. Do a spreadsheet factoring all
the server hardware and software costs for Terminal Server (or even
worse - Citrix) and it's impressive. I've also been buying and pricing
Citrix since it's first version, and while it's a great product, it's 
cheap only in comparison to the cost of supporting the MS desktop.

3) Support costs. The beliefs and number here will vary, but in 
general I think the community is convinced that Linux/OpenSource
is cheaper to support than MS. I say that if you believe this, be
brave and offer to cut back on support staff after converting to
Linux and OpenSource.

4) Appliance based computing. Every study I've ever read in CIO
and other forums shows that appliances are dramatically less 
expensive than individual software based solutions. And most
appliances today are based on some flavor of Linux, which means
that they are quite capable and friendly when supporting Linux
desktops. (If you want to give a commercial example, GM will
always buy an appliance based solution if they can.)

5) Remote support. In general, being able to provide comprehensive
remote support reduces desktop and server support costs. Since
Linux was built on the Unix model, it has a native focus on simple
access by the remote administrator. While there are many tools in
the MS toolkit for this, a comprehensive set can be costly and
it's not as robust as the builtin Linux model.


1) Reduce the economic barrier to adoption and consideration of
educational and productivity software. Encourages teachers and 
students to experiment and be creative.

2) Compatible with standard business documents and data. 2003 was
really a breakthrough year because now OpenOffice is a damn good
product and reasonably compatible with MS Office. This issue
presented a real barrier to adoption, and that barrier should
be knocked down now.

3) Enables further improvement of education focused training and
collaboration systems. Since Open Source invites improvement from
the user community, because is is structured on distributed and 
collaborative development, this is a way for schools to shape
their own future without becoming software programmers.
 (By the way,here a few tools in this space that I'm
  guessing would be of interest to schools:
    o MimerDesk - http://www.mimerdesk.org/community/engine.html?page=9 
    o Moodle course management system (CMS) - http://moodle.org/ 
    o Claroline - allows teacher to create web courses 
    o .LRN - http://www.dotlrn.org/ elearning platform based on OpenACS
    o Fle3 - Future Learning Environment http://fle3.uiah.fi/index.html 
4) New avenues for community volunteerism and involvement. Since
OpenSource is a user driven, volunteer community, there will be
many locales (such as Davis) that have active user groups that will
be motivated to get involved and help out.

5) Compatible with mission to educate and serve. Linux and
OpenSource is a great way for high school students to get
involved in challenging parts of the computer world where
they can make a difference and contribute to real world products.
Some high schools support projects for battling robots, and that's
exciting, but think of the excitement they would have if they 
succeeded in contributing a significant element to some part of the
next release or Linux, or KDE, or GNOME!

Hope these ideas are useful.

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Kendrick <nbs@sonic.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:14:35 -0800
To: LUGOD <vox@lists.lugod.org>
Subject: [vox] [fwd] Re: [K12OSN] M$ Cost Comparisons]

Re: Wow.  Win2003 server for $80 bucks, Office for $40...
Re: This must have been what was being talking about at the beginning of
Re: the last LUGOD meeting.
Re: ----- Forwarded message from Chris Hobbs ------
Re: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 11:18:04 -0800
Re: From: Chris Hobbs
Re: Subject: Re: [K12OSN] M$ Cost Comparisons
Re: Richard K. Ingalls wrote:
Re: >Anyone who knows what MS server software costs AND what licenses we'd 
Re: >need to do a comparison? Please chime in!
Re: I'd caution anyone trying to "sell" K12LTSP on the function of price 
Re: alone - the reality is, MS is pretty aggressive on pricing for K12 
Re: institutions. For example, here in California, any school can purchase 
Re: off the schedule available at: <http://www.calsave.org/companies/microsoft/>
Re: For your example products:
Re: Windows 2003 Server: $80.51
Re: Client Access Licenses (one needed for each user/device): $5.81
Re: Terminal Services CAL (ditto): $25.73
Re: Office 2003 (per user/device): $41.50
Re: SQL Server (would many schools use this instead of Access?): $245.68
Re: Excluding SQL Server, the price for a 30 workstation lab would be: 
Re: $2271.71. While not free, it would be easy for a district to justify 
Re: this cost compared to the need to train teaching staff in new software 
Re: and train support staff in new administration techniques.
Re: My point is to not try to make this purely about the cost of software, 
Re: because the true cost is certainly greater than the sticker price you 
Re: pay up front - there is a validity to the concept of Total Cost of 
Re: Owenership (TCO). The problem with TCO is that there are so many ways to 
Re: compute it that it almost becomes meaningless. Figuring out a way to 
Re: compute it in your environment is the key to selling your ideas.
Re: Hope this helps!
Re: -- 
Re: Chris Hobbs       Silver Valley Unified School District
Re: Head geek:              Technology Services Coordinator
Re: webmaster:   http://www.silvervalley.k12.ca.us/~chobbs/
Re: [ << snipped part of sig and list sig >> ]
Re: ----- End forwarded message -----
Re: -- 
Re: bill@newbreedsoftware.com                           Got kids?  Get Tux Paint! 
Re: http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/       http://newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpaint/
Re: _______________________________________________
Re: vox mailing list
Re: vox@lists.lugod.org
Re: http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox

Ed Elliott
(707) 428-6620

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