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The following is an archive of a post made to our 'vox mailing list' by one of its subscribers.

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Re: [vox] About this vox-jobs idea...
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Re: [vox] About this vox-jobs idea...

begin Mike Simons <msimons@moria.simons-clan.com> 
> [OT: first post! (in a few years) ;]
welcome back!    :-)
> Hi all,
>   I would like to see a vox-jobs list.
>   Parts of this thread accidentally landed in some another list I actually
> read, so I figured now that I have procmail setup and running to file
> mails and mutt working to switch between folders, it wouldn't hurt too
> much to join vox again :).
>   Without alot of digging around I can't get access to a mbox format
> of the vox threads so I'm piecing things of interest from the web archive.
> pete wrote:
> # approving X non-subscriber posts a day for large X and
> # a single list would be a big bummer.
> # 
> # the upshot is that anyone who has spammed vox, vox-tech, vox-announce,
> # vox-outreach, vox-officers or me personally (this is why you always see
> # me logged into lugod.org 24 hours a day) is in the postfix spamming
> # list, so they won't be able to spam vox-jobs.
> # 
> # also, would we allow non-linux, non-OSS jobs?   that would not fall
> # under lugod's official charter.
> pete, in another post:
> # bill wrote:
> # > Can't the list be set up to auto-delete non-subscriber posts?
> # > (Rather than sending them to admin for approval/rejection?)
> # 
> # unfortunately, not.
>   If the notes set to the list admin go by email, a procmail rule should
> be able to reply "reject" and direct anything you want to /dev/null.

that would be *sweet*.   i've already spent 2 hours working on the lugod
lists today (the first of the month is always bad for the lists).

if we could do that, it would be some serious time-saving for me.
> discussion of zero sum game, non-overlapping people helping.
> discussion of techoire and ryze.
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:03:43PM -0800, Michael Dunham wrote:
> ] But just so we don't lose focus, I should also point out there are some
> ] other network avenues that I am exploring and I recommend to all - start
> ] with Ryze.  I am a member and I am working to build a network of people
> ] in the Sacramento Valley that can meet and network about opportunities
> ] in the region. http://www.ryze.com I am also a member of the Sacramento
> ] Metro Chamber - is Lugod represented in the Davis Chamber?
> bill wrote:
> % On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:03:43PM -0800, Michael Dunham wrote:
> % <snip>
> % > is Lugod represented in the Davis Chamber?
> % <snip>
> % 
> % We looked into it.  It cost something like $140 or so per year, which we
> % decided we couldn't afford at the moment. :^(
>   Bill I think he may have been referring to the Davis Chamber of Ryze?

davis chamber of commerce.  i don't think there is a davis chamber of
ryze.  at least, i don't think there is.
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:19:52PM -0800, Peter Jay Salzman wrote:
> > i'm not opposed to a new mailing list.  you have to understand that each
> > mailing list is considerable work.  and it's a thankless job.  if we're
> > going to have a new mailing list, i'd just like to make sure its
> > warranted.
>   I'm glad it didn't got to vox... since I won't have seen it.  
>   I like the idea of a vox-jobs list.  I agree that for it to be useful
> non-subscribers should be able to post to a list like that, and that
> lots of off-topic spam could arrive on the list like that.
>   I'm almost interested enough to be a moderator for that sort of 
> of list.  I think a few procmail/spamassasin rules and perl scripts 
> and most of the the crap rejection can be automated...
>   I'm also wondering if moderation tasks could be shared... since
> if there are a large volume it could be time consuming.
> - Do you think we should discuss this on vox?
>   [pete said yes]
> Rules for for the list would have to be defined... 
> here are some initial ideas... I'm not saying these *are* the rules,
> trying to spark some conversation about what should be enforced:
> ====
> - Job posts _must_ be Linux related job.
> - Reply-to munging may need to be off.
>   (for this type of list having lots of discussion on list doesn't 
>    seem appropriate).
> - Have archive public on website.
> - Non-subscribed posts must be moderated.
> - Users/Domains that generate more than X off-topic spam get banned 
>   for Y months (something like 3, 3).
> - Repeat posting a job less than X weeks apart results in a ban...
> - Users can talk about job skills,
>   maybe post resumes, but limited to a resume post every X period 
>   of months (like 3).
> much more of a headache:
> - Users can complain about job posts that turn out to not be Linux
>   related when they go to interview, or get no reply to queries for
>   information.  If more than X people complain about a posting source
>   they get banned for Y.
> ===
> for moderation of non-subscribed posts, what I'm thinking could happen is:
> ===
> mail that spamcop or maps rejects gets dropped on the floor.
> mail that passes and are from non-subscribers get a email sent to them
>   automatically saying, you aren't subscribed so you need to reply to
>   this auto-generated email for your post to be considered by a
>   moderator (could have a web URL or something too).
> people who have done the "are you a real person" click through 
>   and have been moderator approved, automatically stay in the 
>   direct to a live moderator mode until X moderator rejects, or 
>   Y idle period with no posts.
> ===                                                                                                                     
>   I'm going to work with Pete some to see if we can automate some 
> more of the list admin banning and unsubscribed post handling chores.

if we can automate some of what i do for the other 5 lugod lists, i
wouldn't mind another one.  being able to delete spam without having to
log into mailman would be *fantastic*.


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you,
then you win. -- Gandhi, being prophetic about Linux.

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