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2003 Mar 01 08:03

The following is an archive of a post made to our 'vox mailing list' by one of its subscribers.

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[vox] About this vox-jobs idea...
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[vox] About this vox-jobs idea...



[OT: first post! (in a few years) ;]


Hi all,

  I would like to see a vox-jobs list.

  Parts of this thread accidentally landed in some another list I actually
read, so I figured now that I have procmail setup and running to file
mails and mutt working to switch between folders, it wouldn't hurt too
much to join vox again :).

  Without alot of digging around I can't get access to a mbox format
of the vox threads so I'm piecing things of interest from the web archive.

pete wrote:
# approving X non-subscriber posts a day for large X and
# a single list would be a big bummer.
# 
# the upshot is that anyone who has spammed vox, vox-tech, vox-announce,
# vox-outreach, vox-officers or me personally (this is why you always see
# me logged into lugod.org 24 hours a day) is in the postfix spamming
# list, so they won't be able to spam vox-jobs.
# 
# also, would we allow non-linux, non-OSS jobs?   that would not fall
# under lugod's official charter.

pete, in another post:
# bill wrote:
# > Can't the list be set up to auto-delete non-subscriber posts?
# > (Rather than sending them to admin for approval/rejection?)
# 
# unfortunately, not.

  If the notes set to the list admin go by email, a procmail rule should
be able to reply "reject" and direct anything you want to /dev/null.


discussion of zero sum game, non-overlapping people helping.

discussion of techoire and ryze.


On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:03:43PM -0800, Michael Dunham wrote:
] But just so we don't lose focus, I should also point out there are some
] other network avenues that I am exploring and I recommend to all - start
] with Ryze.  I am a member and I am working to build a network of people
] in the Sacramento Valley that can meet and network about opportunities
] in the region. http://www.ryze.com I am also a member of the Sacramento
] Metro Chamber - is Lugod represented in the Davis Chamber?

bill wrote:
% On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:03:43PM -0800, Michael Dunham wrote:
% <snip>
% > is Lugod represented in the Davis Chamber?
% <snip>
% 
% We looked into it.  It cost something like $140 or so per year, which we
% decided we couldn't afford at the moment. :^(

  Bill I think he may have been referring to the Davis Chamber of Ryze?


On Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 02:19:52PM -0800, Peter Jay Salzman wrote:
> i'm not opposed to a new mailing list.  you have to understand that each
> mailing list is considerable work.  and it's a thankless job.  if we're
> going to have a new mailing list, i'd just like to make sure its
> warranted.

  I'm glad it didn't got to vox... since I won't have seen it.  

  I like the idea of a vox-jobs list.  I agree that for it to be useful
non-subscribers should be able to post to a list like that, and that
lots of off-topic spam could arrive on the list like that.

  I'm almost interested enough to be a moderator for that sort of 
of list.  I think a few procmail/spamassasin rules and perl scripts 
and most of the the crap rejection can be automated...

  I'm also wondering if moderation tasks could be shared... since
if there are a large volume it could be time consuming.

- Do you think we should discuss this on vox?
  [pete said yes]


Rules for for the list would have to be defined... 

here are some initial ideas... I'm not saying these *are* the rules,
trying to spark some conversation about what should be enforced:
====
- Job posts _must_ be Linux related job.
- Reply-to munging may need to be off.
  (for this type of list having lots of discussion on list doesn't 
   seem appropriate).
- Have archive public on website.
- Non-subscribed posts must be moderated.
- Users/Domains that generate more than X off-topic spam get banned 
  for Y months (something like 3, 3).
- Repeat posting a job less than X weeks apart results in a ban...

- Users can talk about job skills,
  maybe post resumes, but limited to a resume post every X period 
  of months (like 3).

much more of a headache:
- Users can complain about job posts that turn out to not be Linux
  related when they go to interview, or get no reply to queries for
  information.  If more than X people complain about a posting source
  they get banned for Y.
===


for moderation of non-subscribed posts, what I'm thinking could happen is:
===
mail that spamcop or maps rejects gets dropped on the floor.

mail that passes and are from non-subscribers get a email sent to them
  automatically saying, you aren't subscribed so you need to reply to
  this auto-generated email for your post to be considered by a
  moderator (could have a web URL or something too).

people who have done the "are you a real person" click through 
  and have been moderator approved, automatically stay in the 
  direct to a live moderator mode until X moderator rejects, or 
  Y idle period with no posts.
===                                                                                                                     

  I'm going to work with Pete some to see if we can automate some 
more of the list admin banning and unsubscribed post handling chores.

    Later,
      Mike
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