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Re: [vox] Censorship => signoff
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Re: [vox] Censorship => signoff

hi mark,

thanks for your (and micah's) support.  you didn't miss any emails --
the whole business DID come from left field.  the reason is because i
kept the whole affair private to avoid publically embarrassing karsten.
you see what i got for my pains.  basically here's what happened:

1. karsten breaks list rules.
2. i ask him not to (politely).
3. karsten is rude to rod roark and katie while breaking list rules.
4. i tell him if he breaks list rules, his posts will be moderated.
5. karsten loses all control and goes insane publically.

of course, there's loads of details in each step.  there's more to it
than that.  someone had lied about seeing a post vanish from our
archive.  karsten wrote an apology that he wanted me to cut and paste to
the mailing lists (as in, he wanted me to apologize and wrote the
apology for me).  the whole thing got pretty surreal.

anyway, bill and i are both crafting our own independent responses and
will make them public soon.

the reason why you haven't seen our response yet is because both bill
and i have jobs, whereas karsten has none.  bill has a wife.  i have a
fiance.  karsten has none.  the evenings and weekends are when bill
spends time with melissa and i spend time with rhonda.  i don't know
what the heck karsten does with his free time.  read mailing lists, i

neither one of us has the wealth of time that karsten has.  but more
importantly, this affair simply isn't as important to us as it is to
karsten.  there's more to life than a stupid email list.  anyone who
lets email evoke such a strong emotion is ... well, frankly, unbalanced.

also, i'm not entirely sure i want responses on the mailing lists
anyhow.  i'm sending this one because i know everyone's pretty confused.
lugod's main mission has always been to get and support new linux users,
to "geekify the populace and to have fun doing it".  the mailing lists
need to reflect this.  i'd rather not air dirty laundry in the public.
looks bad for linux.

but a reply will be coming sooner or later.  it's just not as high up on
my "todo" list as, say, spending time with my fiance or my phd research.


ps- just to reiterate what mark said - yes, the mailing list
administrator is a dirty job.  nobody likes to be told what to do.
obviously, some people go bananas over it.  and i still seem to be
spending at least an hour a day (a good solid straight hour) on spam
control.   :-/

begin Mark K. Kim <markslist@cbreak.org> 
> Well, I don't know whether Karsten is still on the list or not so
> I'll CC him also.
> I know both Karsten and Peter are strong willed so I can see how there can
> be conflict here, and though I haven't been keeping up with how this event
> came about, I hope both of you can see past any minor differences.
> Having said that, Peter has time and time again pointed out he'll be happy
> to let someone else take over the list admin job.  This is a difficult and
> dirty job that requires a lot of filtering spams among other things.  If
> Karsten or anyone is dissatisfied with the list admin's performance,
> please feel free to request to take over the list rather than ask for a
> resignation.
> And as a moderator, we'd expect him or her to enforce the rules we've
> setup for the lists.  The rules do exist on the lists because *we* wanted
> them, and though we can certainly change them, that requires a general
> consensus rather than a belief of any single individual.  And though the
> list is not democratic, it *is* republic, since we have a chosen moderator
> (by default, however it was) that enforces the rules that we have setup.
> I think Peter has done a good if not an excellent job of this, and though
> he has been more aggressive than I would have liked him to be sometimes, I
> can't say if I wouldn't be the same way had I been the moderator with
> hours of work filtering spams and watching the same issues occur over and
> over.
> So though Karsten may have problems, I hope he can understand Peter and
> work with him and the rest of the group to make this list better, rather
> than simply abandoning the group.  I do enjoy the amount of knowledge he
> brings to the group and I hope he stays.
> -Mark~
> -- 
> Mark K. Kim
> http://www.cbreak.org/
> PGP key available upon request.
> _______________________________________________
> vox mailing list
> vox@lists.lugod.org
> http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you,
then you win. -- Gandhi, being prophetic about Linux.

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