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2002 May 21 12:06

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Re: [vox] Stallman on Slashdot
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Re: [vox] Stallman on Slashdot




On Tue, 21 May 2002, Peter Jay Salzman wrote:

> gospel?  hardly.  i'd prove it to by showing the lines where i said RMS
> is "justified but is way too extreme in his views and words", but
> unfortnately, you snipped that part of my email.

So he's extreme but justified? Ok.
 
> but everything you say below, and i'm keeping it for quoting purposes,
> really doesn't address anything i said:

Nor did I claim it did. It was a rant, but did address (to a narrow
degree) why some folks don't want to deal with him.
 
> 1. our systems are just as much GNU as they are linux.

My mountain bike is just as much a Shimano as it is an Easton by that
account (Easton made it, but its chock full of Shimano components).  It's
a semantic argument (remember the last two syllables).

> 2. RMS is justified in feeling put-off that GNU gets no billing (other
>   than debian).

Why? Because *he* isn't the cenetr of attention? Sorry, I just do not give
a flying, land-based or nautical fuck.  He feels put off so he compounds
it by behaving in a way that guarantees being marginalized even
more. Good, soon maybe he will totally go off the deep end and be ignored
to the point of banishment.

> 3. his extremism in words and complaints are over-the-top.  when people
>   rant like a madman, nobody is going to take them seriously.  he really
>   needs to learn that people stopped listening to him long ago.

Have they?  I was brow beaten by a wimpy little FSF wanker last LWCE
because I was being sociable with Kurt Granroth of the KDE project. He has
a small but noisy band of elves worshipping his little contorted frame...
 
> 4. talking about extremism and over-the-top words... your own words,
>   imho, are just as outrageous as RMS.

Note: I at least inject things like sarcasm and a jaded raw sense of
humour (even Rick will give me that much).  RMS is so earnest and serious
in his little ramblings that it is evident that we are not diametrically
opposed in views as much as in approach.

>   you're two peas in a pod, and
>   it's very easy for me to discount your entire email when you say
>   things like:
> 
>    > He's frustrated because his fucking ego isn't being stroked by the PR
>    > equivalent of a buxom 17 year old Britney clone wearing a PVC halter top
>    > and an Oral B mint dental floss thong like Linus has.
> 
>    heck, in fact, i'd say that it's easier to write you off than it is
>    to write off RMS.  at least his insanity *tries* to be civil.

On civility:

1. Calling John Ousterhout a 'parasite' while eating his own dandruff at a
Tradeshow several years back (Ousterhout was the creator of TCL/Tk

2. Talking down to Larry Augustin about the whole 'you should call
yourselves VA GNU/Linux' muck right after donating a large sum of cash, hw
and bandwidth to the FSF, and not even greeting him with a 'hello Larry,
we should discuss something...' but rather with a blunt jab.

3. Yelling and cussing at a VA tech support person over an access issue to
one of his machines that was hosted at VA (RMS hasd been given NetOps cell
numbers and knew how to get a hold of the right people, instead he called
tech-support fo who knows what reason and stared tearing into them.)

4. Insert any other common example of his inability to attempt to fund the
costs of some social overhead.

>     your
>    insanity is overshadowed by your propensity to flame the guy.  at
>    least RMS would try to debate you. 
>    afaics, you'd just be sitting
>    there talking about his personal hygiene.

see 'jaded sense of humour' above.  If I really based my tech opinions and
attitudes based on the hygiene of programmers, I'd be doing wmath with an
abacus still and my MTA would wear a blue uniform.

> the entire rest of your email (and i'm keeping it intact for reference)
> lambasts the guy on a personal level.  that's fine -- i have no problem
> with your opinion of the dude.

Really? 
 
> again, i'm not advocating we all start caving in to RMS's demands and
> start changing what we call "linux".
> 
> all i'm saying is:
> 
> 
>    regardless of whether his rhetoric is insane or not, i understand his
>    position.  i don't necessarily advocate embracing his position.  i
>    simply understand his position.
> 
> 
> pete
> 
> ps- if raster, horms, san mehat and mandrake changed the license of
> their software simply because (quote):
> 
>       "hey hate stallman's dreck so much they won't even deign to use
>       his licenses"
>       
> and not because:
> 
>       "they don't like the terms of the licenses"
>       
> then that's a testament to their own childish stupidity.   
> i would hope
> they can separate the man from license.

Actually its a testament/protest to the intractability and annoying nature
of RMS. They all pretty much got sick of his condecension and badgering,
and decided that they would distance themselves from him in that regard.

Can you seperate RMS from his license? The two are so tightly woven
togther perception wise (and perception is as good as reality to most
folks) that no, most folks don't, and frankly, RMS appears to want it that
way as well.  

z


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